I am excited to share this podcast with you. In addition to the The Savage Collective I also do work with a group called the Beatrice Institute, a fellowship of faculty at University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon who are working to bring the Christian intellectual tradition to bear on our academic studies. I host the Beatrice Institute Podcast which is coproduced by The Savage Collective.
In this episode, I have an in-depth conversation with Ruth and Peco Gaskovski who are both well-known Substack writers (Pilgrims in the Machine and School of the Unconformed). We talked extensively about their work which focuses on maintaining our humanity in the face of digital technology. It was a great conversation and I hope you enjoy it.
Below I have listed some timestamps to mark a few especially interesting portions of the discussion as well as some helpful links and resources. You can also visit the Beatrice Institute website for a full transcript of the conversation. The Beatrice Institute Podcast is also available on Spotify and Apple Music.
Highlights
00:00 - Preview of the discussion to come
02:10 - When we talk about the Machine we are not only addressing the dark side of technology, but also the underlying ideological component that we need technology.
05:03 - A central feature of dystopian literature is artificial baby production. Technology ruptures the spiritual dimension of producing life.
09:28 - Machine architects are a part of financial elites wielding power, while lacking insight into the responsibility they hold.
11.27 - Humans have an innate desire for freedom and autonomy and want to reject deliberate manipulation of attention. Recognizing the disconnect between enslaving algorithms and inner conscience can lead to an awakening.
15:05 - Peco and Ruth co-write the majority of their pieces and focus on how to live well in family, ordinary work life, and community.
17:43 - In what ways does technology make us less human?
21:22 - We need another story that is more compelling than the story of the Machine.
28:05 - Rather than using specific technology use rules, our heuristic must really ask “how do we live well?” and “does it separate us from each other?”
34:41 - People often have inner inklings of desiring change. The articles and community of School of the Unconformed and Pilgrims in the Machine help to help readers feel less isolated and reminds them that they are not alone in seeking to demote technology in their lives.
44:45 - How do you respond to people who call you Luddites or alarmists?
49:09 - Nostalgia is only useful to the extent that it points us toward something true, good, or beautiful.
Links and Other Resources
Peco and Ruth Gaskovski’s Substacks Pilgrims in the Machine and School of the Unconformed
A selection of articles by Peco and Ruth Gaskovski:
“The 3Rs of Unmachining: Guideposts for an Age of Technological Upheaval”
“Sowing Anachronism: How to be Weird in Public, and Private”
“Rehabilitating Ferals of the Digital Age”
“Horses in the Heart: Passions, Distortions, and Ultimate Hope”
“From Blackboards to Black Vestments: Where Do We Put Our Trust?”
“The Making of Unmachine Minds - Family, Education, and Non-Conformity”
Books and articles mentioned in this episode:
Paul Kingsnorth’s writings on the Machine
The World-Ending Fire: The Essential Wendell Berry
The Machine Stops by E.M. Forster
Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut
The Iron Heel by Jack London
Exogenesis by Peco Gaskovski
Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
“Acceleration and Resonance: An Interview with Hartmut Rosa”
Bari Weiss’s conversation with Sam Altman: “Is AI the End of the World? Or the Dawn of a New One?”
The Psychology of Totalitarianism by Mattias Desmet
The Social Dilemma, a documentary by Tristan Harris, former design ethicist at Google and founder of the Center for Human Technology.
“Why I am Not Going to Buy a Computer” by Wendell Berry
“Machine Capture in Three Acts Lessons from Henry and the Great Society”by Grant Martsolf published on The Savage Collective
The Everlasting Man by G.K. Chesterton
Unmachining: Reclaiming a grounded life